INT: We were talking about the schedule…
HC: You get notes to the actors, and do the show. The show on air from 12 to 12:15. As soon as the show was over you'd get the next days script, meet with the actors and read it through before they got out of make-up or anything. The PA would time it so you could find out if you needed cuts are what needed to be done. Part of live television was constantly going from your PA who would tell you "on the nose" "losing time" "slow em down." Then you would have to tell your stage manager to slow them down. The stage manager would go beneath the camera to the actors and give them the signal to stretch out time. Or vice versa with a speed up hand motion. The actors had to be aware of that all the time.

INT: So the staff was an Assistant Director and a PA?
HC: Hal: And a technical director, and an audio man and a stage manager on the floor. On SEARCH FOR TOMORROW, my stage manager was JOE PAPP who was doing a crazy Shakespeare thing on a truck that he would travel around the city with. I wanted to do it, but Joe told me I was too busy. We would finish reading the script, then I would hop in a cab and go to an office I had where my assistant was waiting for me with a coffee and a sandwich and I would dictate the script for THE MAGIC COTTAGE which I was writing. I would write from about 1:30 until 5:30, then hop on a cab and go to DUMONT studio, time for a dress rehearsal for THE MAGIC COTTAGE so I could give notes. It went on air from 6:30 to 7. At seven o'clock PAT who was doing the show, and I would go to Dick the Oyster Man, have our dinner, go home. I would go over soap opera script for the next day, rough mark what I wanted, then I would jot down story outlines on a yellow pad for THE MAGIC COTTAGE. I did this every day except Saturday night and all Sunday was free. Did that for four and a half to five years and somehow managed every year to take a week off by writing ahead on THE MAGIC COTTAGE. All by getting an extra script in.

INT: So there was no more SUMMER STOCK, no more CATSKILLS?
HC: There was no more anything. TV BABYSITTER went so I didn’t have to do that. There was the MAGIC COTTAGE and SEARCH FOR TOMORROW . [INT: And they were on five days a week?] Hal: Five days a week, both live from '51 to '57.

INT: Now television is making some pretty amazing changes...
HC: Oh, television has grown up. During that period television has now grown up. I don't know when coast to coast came in, but around '57, '58 somewhere around then. Television in New York began to die. There had been on three networks plus the independents programming all day long. Live. Gradually the films started coming in. LUCY went to film. No kinescope, good quality stuff, with big stars. And the big stars in Hollywood started doing television shows. New York was diminishing as a production center. CHARLIE IRVING who had done SEARCH FOR TOMORROW finally left. He got a job, he sold KITTY FOYLE to NBC, based on the movie, and we did flashbacks on KITTY FOYLE and her as a little girl was PATTY DUKE, her first television stuff.

INT: At this point, you were doing these shows. Was there any recordings of any these shows?
HC: There were kinescopes. There are two extant that the TV Museum has of THE MAGIC COTTAGE. Two half hour shows. TV BABYSITTER show does not exist. They made kinescopes of them but sometime in the early 1950s, the warehouse became too stacked and they didn't think they had any value so they burned them. They got rid of all the old kinescopes.

INT: At what point did SEARCH FOR TOMORROW go to a half hour? They expanded at some point?
HC: First it went to color, it was black and white. It went to half hour I think around 1956.

INT: They were doing color that early?
HC: Yeah, it was not good color but it was color. There were the two rival color processes then, and CBS had the spinning wheel which was a physical thing, and the color was pretty good on that, but CHARLIE IRVING didn't want to bother, didn't want to spend the money. Only thing in color was the flesh tone. Everything else was grey. We went to NBC to do KITTY FOYLE. And then that went off the air. There was very little around. CHARLIE came out to California to take over programming at KTLA as an independent producer and he called me and said, why don't you come out here? New York is dying. I came out to look around, spent two months. He had some shows on KTLA; DIVORCE COURT, he had all the court shows, TRAFFIC COURT, and I played the bailiff. So I could get a check every week. He put me on the payroll so I could pay my rent. I looked around and I decided, yes I did want to come out. So I went back to New York, we sold our house, and we came out here to California. I was working at KTLA doing a little more than that for CHARLIE, directing some stuff, local shows. Unbeknownst to me at the time ART LINKLETTER who had, HOUSE PARTY and his nighttime shows, he had a deal with CBS to do a daytime soap opera. One had never been done on the West Coast, and they didn't really trust him. Some CBS executive said to ART that they heard that HAL COOPER was on the West Coast, and if LINKLETTER could get HAL COOPER to direct and produce the soap opera, he could get a go. They wanted someone with experience in soap opera. So I got a call from his office and I came in to meet him. He didn't tell me that back story or I would have asked for a lot more money. Anyway I wound up doing FOR BETTER OR WORSE which was the first soap opera done from the West Coast. On CBS it lasted a year. I went from that into another soap opera. THE CLEAR HORIZON. That lasted a year, and I segued from that into SURPRISE PACKAGE. A game show starring GEORGE FENNEMAN and produced by ALLAN SHERMAN. We had a lot of fun, but he was nuts. He was crazy. He was writing these songs all the time, and I helped sometimes. He'd call me up at midnight and say to come over because he was stuck, and then I would have to go over to his house.

INT: Tell me a little about some of the contemporary directors at this time? JACK SHEA?
HC: I didn't know JACK in those days. I think he was still a stage manager. JOHN was doing very well. [INT: Did you know them in New York?] JOHN RICH and I went to high school and UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. He followed me. When I was doing THE MAGIC COTTAGE, JOHN RICH had just got out of the service, and came and visited to see what this television thing was all about. Then he moved out to West Coast and became a very important director. I was directing soap operas and he was doing big nighttime shows. After SURPRISE PACKAGE, there was another soap opera I was directing. I was with WILLIAM MORRIS, but I was a nameless person on their list. But NORMAN BROKAW knew some of the actors on that show and NORMAN stopped by a couple of times and stayed in back of control room. At the end he said " You shouldn't be doing this, you should be doing more than this." I said I've tried to break into film and I'm a "daytime director." He said he'd like to introduce me to someone and to meet him at the CAHUENGA DESILU STUDIOS on Tuesday. I'd like to introduce you to SHELDON LEONARD. Talk about happenstance and luck in this business.

INT: There's a big name coming up here that I want to talk to you about. Tell me at what point did you become aware of the DIRECTORS GUILD and when did you join and what was the Guild like at this period?
HC: Hal: I belonged to the RTDG (Radio and TV Directors Guild) in New York which was separate from the SCREEN DIRECTORS GUILD which was in California. When I came out here I stayed with RTDG because I was directing television. Then JOHN RICH who was very active in the Guild here invited me to come to some of the Guild meetings. He was involved in both, RTDG and SDG. That's how I started getting involved with the DIRECTORS GUILD. [INT: Were the ADs and stage managers in those days Guild members?] Oh yes. They were already members when I got into it.

INT: So you meet Sheldon Leonard?
HC: So I was very nervous. CARL REINER who I knew from New York and JOHN RICH was directing THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW. I didn’t say anything to JOHN about the meeting or anything. I didn't call him up and say guess who I'm meeting or anything. NORMAN brought me up to SHELDON's office and in one of the most genius bits of agenting I've ever been part of. He says "SHEL this is HAL COOPER. I've been watching him work, he's very good. He worked for GEORGE ABBOTT, and you worked for GEORGE ABBOTT. Listen, I got an appointment, why don't you two talk and I have a good time together. SHELDON, you remember the last time I brought a director on this lot? No? I brought you on the lot to meet DANNY THOMAS. Have a good discussion." And he left the room. There was nothing to be said after that so we discussed THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW and discussed his philosophy on how one does a sitcom. I had done a few in New York live. So he said observe for a couple of weeks and then you can do a couple of shows because JOHN is going off to do an ELVIS PRESLEY movie. We walked out on balcony, and as we did coming out of stage was CARL and JOHN who called out to me. I observed two weeks JOHN, did then I did two of THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOWS. And out of that things started to happen. [INT: What year of the series was that?] First year, first season of THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW.

INT: What was that like?
HC: It was wonderful. SHELDON used to say "Listen you're on a railroad track and you're going from this station to that station. you wanna take some deviant moves around that's OK as long as you get back on the track and arrive at the station when you're supposed to." I knew what he meant. I always had fun devising business to keep when the plot was plotty, when you had to lay out a plot, I always gave the actors some activity to make the medicine go down easier

INT: VAN DYKE, MARY TYLER MOORE, MOREY, ROSE MARIE, CARL REINER?
HC: Hal: Oh yeah it was wonderful to work with them. One of the two shows was a RASHOMON story. It was about a fight between Laura and Rob, after the end, after three versions were told, the script cut to a goldfish bowl in the living room and the two fish spoke to each other about what really happened. I said to CARL "I can do that, can you do that?" [Hal starts talking in a "fishy" voice] We did all the dialogue of the two fish on the stage. The audience was screaming. We stood there on the stage and did the fish dialogue to finish off the show.

INT: Now JOHN was around? JERRY PARIS was there?
HC: Yes, JOHN was there. JERRY was just an actor on the show. After that there was a hiatus because my then agent, I had left WILLIAM MORRIS, and my then agent BILL MEIKLEJOHN, who had been the head of PARAMOUNT casting at one time, a very important man in the business, got me DEATH VALLEY DAYS. REAGAN had just left and ROBERT TAYLOR was taking over. I had never directed a western. I didn't know, a kid from the Bronx, and Far Rockaway in Long Island. I didn't know anything about it but I asked questions. You went out to location in the desert and you had started a show on Monday, had to be finished by Wednesday noon, lunchtime. [INT: Two and a half days?] And then the other director would take... The other director was a wonderful man by the name of TAY GARNETT. A big MGM director. He had fallen on bad times and was now recovering. I would look at the call sheet and see "six nondescript horses" and I didn't know what a nondescript horse meant. I would see a wikiup and I wouldn't know what a wikiup was. But I asked and they were helpful. I knew what I wanted out of the scene. I knew how I wanted to direct the actors and I knew pictorially what I wanted. For example in my first shot with ROBERT TAYLOR, was a shot outside of the saloon, horses tied up, TAYLOR gets on horse and rides around the corner. So I set up the shot, talked to TAYLOR about what we were going to do and the horse trainer got on the horse and got the horse to get around the corner two or three times. Now were set up, rolling and I say "Action!" and the horse takes off and goes around the corner. Cut. "Mr. Cooper, never say action to a movie horse." Little things like that you pick up that never occurred to me. Also I had these boots. I would walk on set to tell the actors something, and I would walk away and see these guys brushing the sand behind me. Then we'd be just about ready to go and I would walk back to tell them something quickly and then this guy would give me a look and walk back and brush away my prints again. Turns out cowboys only had smooth leather on the bottom of their boots and mine had imprints. Stuff like that.

INT: Now live television, soaps, THE DICK VAN DYKE SHOW, DEATH VALLEY DAYS, these are three very different styles of shooting?
HC: I just asked a lot of questions. I never pretended I knew. I found in any aspect of the business... I would ask a cinematographer why he was doing certain things and he would explain it to me then I would know. It would be in my pocket from then on. So I would ask the wranglers... BOB TAYLOR taught me how to stage a fight. The stuntmen would do the fight. I would tell them where I wanted to go and they would fall over a rail there and BOB would stand next to me while they were staging it and tell me 'you can cut to me right there' ... and he taught me the angle for a punch. You just learn those things as you go along. [INT: did you ever go back to VAN DYKE?] No never did I got too busy.

INT: 16 shows, DEATH VALLEY DAYS…'63 to '67…?
HC: Then I DREAM OF JEANNIE came along. That was a marriage. I stayed there and did that for six years alternating with CLAUDIO GUZMAN. I would do six he would do six.

INT: How many shows were they doing of the series at that time?
HC: In those days they did 30. In the late 60s I did in a row, 36 shows one year, 37 shows another, 39 shows another. I would do the end of the season of one show and three weeks later start a show that was starting early for the following season.

INT: Now I DREAM OF JEANNIE, how many days did they give you to shoot that?
HC: Three days. Well you had five days, no it was five days. No there was a reading day and four days and then you would have to do pickups along the way for pieces that were missing from other shows.

INT: And that was the first time you had ever done visual effects?
HC: Oh yeah. With DICK… can't think of his name, great special effects guy. Genius. There weren't any computers in those days, they all had to be done physically. He would float her across the room and you would keep the camera on the same plane as her and he had her on a long pipe with a seat.

INT: Now, tell me about that cast. That was a pretty good cast.
HC: Oh that was a wonderful cast. LARRY HAGMAN, BARBARA, BILL DAILY, HAYDEN RORKE. We had a great time. Very hard work, we worked hard, but hard fun.

INT: Because it was single camera, back to the VAN DYKE show, did the VAN DYKE show, they'd had a dedicated stage (we rehearsed in the set) and the schedule was rehearse, run through, cameras shoot?
HC: Yes, and one shoot, in front of the audience. With pickups.

INT: How many run throughs?
HC: On the third day we did a dry run through for SHELDON and everybody. The fourth day was cameras all day long blocking the cameras and at the end of that day there was run through. At DESILU CAHUENGA. [INT: How many writers were involved?] CARL and two guys, whoever wrote that week's script. [INT: and they came to the run through?] Oh yeah, everybody come to the run through. [INT: one run through?] Well, there was one dry and one after the cameras were blocked [INT: How different it is today?] Well, the run through happens 15 minutes after you get the script. [INT: Now, was there anyone from the networks that came to the run throughs of the shows?] Yes, they did come to the show. GRANT TINKER from BENTON & BOWLES, BARRY DILLER was around. Maybe he was from BENTON & BOWLES too. [INT: Nobody from CBS?] Not that I remember, was NBC wasn't it? No, it was CBS

INT: I DREAM OF JEANNIE, who were the writers on that show?
HC: SIDNEY SHELDON. SIDNEY SHELDON with various names, he used other names as well and he did have some writers that came in and did scripts. SIDNEY was quite amazing, he paced and had a secretary who took shorthand. That's how he wrote. He never sat down, never typed. If you had a problem with the scene, at lunchtime I would go up to SIDNEY's office and say this doesn't work. He would say okay and yell "FAITH" and she'd come in. He'd walk up and down and say a line. He'd be Jeannie and say a line, then be LARRY HAGMAN and say a line. And he'd solve the problem beautifully, with a good joke in or a gag or something and then he'd could take it back to the stage.

INT: On these shows, especially the comedy shows, like VAN DYKE and I DREAM OF JEANNIE, the actors point of view about the writing were they… did they honor the writers?
HC: Oh sure you were screaming and yelling. "I can't say that" and "this character would never do that." Sure. They were actors, I was a director. Of course.

INT: How did CARL and SIDNEY take to that? Did they handle it?
HC: Oh sure, everybody's contribution was valued and you would argue and say you're wrong because or whatever but they were always professional disagreements.

INT: So, now you're in Los Angeles for some period of time, ever miss New York? Gee, I like the theater, I want do something else…?
HC: To be frank, I had a good time. I enjoyed what I did from 1962 to when I stopped directing in 1996 or 1997 when I did my last thing I did, I did 25 or more shows every year. I never stopped, was lucky enough to be on successful shows. I never really had time to think about that. As a matter of fact I was offered for hiatus periods, features, but quality of script was such that it wasn't as good as what I was doing on television so I turned it down. Never got my foot in door on feature side. Some people who did, made one and were never heard from again in that area. [INT: Plus you were doing the best shows on the air] I was very lucky to be involved with great people.

INT: When you see these shows, you know GILLIGAN'S ISLAND, SHERWOOD SCHWARTZ [HC: Yeah, I did a lot of BRADY BUNCH for him], GIDGET and HAZEL...
HC: Yeah well GIDGET and HAZEL and those shows were all SCREEN GEMS. I'd do six weeks of JEANNIE, then I would do some of those, GIDGET, or FLYING NUN, or HAZEL or some of those on the weeks when I wasn't doing I DREAM OF JEANNIE, before I went back to it. They were all on the same lot.

INT: SHELDON LEONARD calls I SPY. What was that like?
HC: That was a great deal of fun, that was COSBY just getting started. I had a lot of fun with that. That's the one thing I wish I could've gone back and done some more of. I just did the one show. Had a great time with BOB CULP. One of the most underrated talents, I think in our business. Very funny man, very creative.

INT: THAT GIRL?
HC: THAT GIRL with MARLO. That was a great deal of fun. She was, MARLO was a wonderful, strong lady. She's sitting in this perfect hairdo and look at each one as producer because she had heard sometimes at someplace somebody had robbed someone, and make up and they would bring her a bunch of checks. She would sign all the checks herself [INT: Who was writing the show?] DANNY ARNOLD producer for awhile wrote a lot of them. SAUL TURTELTAUB, BERNIE ORENSTEIN. And I think SAM DENOFF did that. They were there too. SAM and BILL. They did most of those [INT: Another great cast?] Yes I was very lucky. I had great guest stars to work with. SID CAESAR. It was a joy. [INT: JERRY DAVIS was on it?] Yes, JERRY DAVIS was there for a while, worked with him quite a bit on other shows. Marvelous guy.

INT: THAT GIRL was single camera right?
HC: Yes, at DESILU CAHUENGA. Same lot, Danny Thomas and Sheldon Leonard had the whole lot. They had I SPY, THAT GIRL, DICK VAN DYKE, GOMER PYLE, ANDY GRIFFITH. Quite a lot of stuff. Out of ANDY GRIFFITH came MAYBERRY R.F.D. Which I did for its three or four year life.

INT: N.Y.P.D.?
HC: That was an action show in New York that I did a couple of episodes of. It ran for two seasons. It was a good show. It was an action cop show in New York.

INT: You easily went from action single camera to multi camera comedy to single camera comedy...
HC: A director is a director, an actor is an actor, you adapt to the mechanics of what you're doing. Its like driving a stick shift car or a no shift car. You just drive the car and the different kinds of gears you have to learn very quickly. You either have a facility for it or not. There are brilliant directors who never... DAVID ALEXANDER was a marvelous director, a brilliant theater director but would call me up in a panic because he couldn't understand about crossing the line. About an actor exiting one scene this way, and then he would stage it so the actor entered the room the other way. He couldn't understand why that was bad. So he had a cinematographer. He still staged the show, he directed the show. There are marvelous directors that don't understand lighting. There are directors who arise from choreographers, whoa arise from actors, who arise from art directors. Directing is a skill or a talent or a knowledge which calls on everything you've experienced and ability to communicate. GAR KANIN once said and I always adhered to it; a directors main task I have always believed is to create an atmosphere in which creative people can work. That's his main job. Just an atmosphere where people feel free to speak up. As long as you know what you want out of a scene, you know if a suggestion violates or enhances what you're doing. You are allowing creative people to contribute and it makes everything flow much easier. I've directed people who everyone said were difficult, and found them not difficult at all, all you had to do was listen to what they had to say.

INT: Directing is directing? Its a concept a little bit lost today. Networks and studios tend to pigeonhole directors as a multi-camera director...
HC: Well, that's always been true. Probably more true now than usual than it used to be, but it's always been true. There was a night-time director and a day-time director. I couldn't break into night-time out of soap opera. I was a day-time director.

INT: It so is not appropriate. So a director is a director?
HC: A director directs. He's either good at it or he's medium at it or he's not good at it and it has nothing to do with what medium he's directing in. He can be just as bad if he's a bad director directing a theater play as he is directing a single camera movie.

INT: Technical aspects of it in some cases can mask a director's inability to communicate? Guys great with the camera...
HC: But he can't talk to the actors. Well that's his failing. How much do you have to tell PAUL NEWMAN? He'll tell you whether he can do one more take or if he could do better. You don't have to do anything, just make sure you have him on camera.